Crafty smokers dodging ban

Crafty smokers dodging ban
Kevin Feddy

CRAFTY employees are hiding in cupboards and behind plants to get round the ban on smoking in the workplace.
A Manchester-based employment law advice firm has been inundated with calls from business bosses since laws forbidding lighting up in enclosed spaces came into force in England on July 1.

Many employers remain confused about the rules and have swamped Employment Law Advisory Services with calls for guidance.

Most common queries are from managers unsure about what to do if their staff refuse to abide by the rules.

One inquiry was from a boss who caught an employee holding a cigarette through a mesh fence. ELAS spokesman Paul Mooney said: "The worker claimed he wasn't smoking within the office site, as he was holding the cigarette on the other side of the fence."

Back garden "pub" free from smoking ban

Novel idea but I am sure the health facists at the council will find some way to get him,some other law he has broken,or get the neighbours to complain etc-there's only one way to beat the ban-REPEAL THE BAN.

Back garden "pub" free from smoking ban
By Ash Bolton
A MAN has converted his garden shed into a private bar to get round the ban on smoking in public places.

Alan Sheen and his friends built the bar after he moved into the house in Windermere Avenue, Millbrook, Southampton.

As it is a private bar for Alan's close friends and family, it is exempt from the smoking ban which came into force at the start of the month.

Alan and his wife, Carol, take it in turns to serve neighbours and friends from their optics and bottled beers, or simply let them bring their own.

The father of eight has even added a beer garden complete with a water feature.

Alan, 50, said: "People like to come in here and relax and put their music on and have a bit of a social occasion. We put our music on and the kids like to sing and do a bit of karaoke.

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"They can't go into a pub and enjoy what they used to do of having a cigarette and a beer together so if they want to stand here and have their cigarette and pint that's fine."

A spokeswoman for Southampton City Council confirmed that smoking at The Tavern was perfectly legal.

This is hampshire

Backlash over smoking ban

Backlash over smoking ban

Fleet managers are facing a backlash from drivers who are refusing to display no-smoking stickers in their company vehicles.

Several fleet managers have had problems with stubborn drivers when trying to introduce the new legislation.

Debbie Floyde, fleet manager at Emap, publisher of Fleet News, said: “It is a task-and-a-half actually getting drivers to display the stickers.

“All our company car drivers were sent stickers by our leasing company and the amount that now say they are not in receipt of them is incredible.

“Threats and educating them to the fact that they will have to pay fines if caught are the only ways of getting the message over.”

Driver education with the threat of fines can work but warning drivers about disciplinary hearings could also have the desired result.

Ann Dukanovic, fleet manager at Kaba Door Systems, said: “We have had problems with some of our drivers who felt that they didn’t need to display the no-smoking stickers.

“We printed the guidelines outlining that their van is a place of work and the sticker must be displayed.

The regional managers then called in the drivers to say they would be disciplined if stickers are not displayed.”
Councils are now starting to get tough on enforcing the smoking ban (Fleet News, July 19). An enforcement officer recently issued a £50 fine to a driver for smoking in his boss’s vehicle.


Have you had problems with your drivers? Email fleetnews@emap.com.
Driver backlash
”I am not putting a sticker in my car, I don’t smoke and nor will I allow anyone to, so why should I have to display one?”

”I am not putting one in my car until they ban smoking in cars while carrying children.”

”How is this going to be policed?”

”I am the only person who uses the van. Why should I have to have a sticker?”

Number of deaths from smoking

So,as smokers start to get angry,we may wish to examine some of the myths related to smoking related issues-found this link and have cut and pasted a couple of paragraphs to wet your appetite-rest of the article can be found here

burden of proof


Folks,we have been lied to,we are being lied to and its not going to stop with smoking,you can be sure of that.

"In my own family, my aunt died recently in Florida, at the age of 78, from lung cancer. She'd been a smoker in her youth, but gave it up about 25 years ago. A family friend, also a female, died in New York at about the same time as my aunt died. The family friend was in her late 70's or early 80's, and had never smoked a day in her life. Thus, these little old ladies became statistics. Or did they? Actually, it may surprise the reader to learn that death certificates never contain any information concerning the life-styles of the decedents. Therefore, while the Public Health Service keeps certain records showing the cause of death from various diseases, nobody, but nobody keeps any records to show whether the decedents were or were not smokers!

There is an Internet News Group devoted to smoking (alt.smokers). Recently, a participant called the Office of Smoking or Health, in an effort to find out how the government arrives at its estimate of 450,000 annual smoking related deaths. After repeated calls to different individuals within the government, it turned out that nobody really knew how the figures are compiled. Some bureaucrat said he thought the calculations might come from a book, "Foundations of Modern Epidemiology", by David Lilienfeld. They don't. I'll discuss this and other interesting statistical manipulations, later. "

fight the smoking ban campaign gathers pace

YOU TUBE PROTESTR MARCH

PROTEST MARCH: Paul Toole, who runs a karaoke business in Somerset, recently organised a well-publicised protest walk in Wells. The walk was featured on the local television news, (spot those Forest t-shirts!) encouraging Paul to organise a similar event in Glastonbury on Saturday 11th August.

"We will be meeting at 12 noon in Silver Street car park, behind the High Street," says Paul. "There is a nightclub called Fuel so people will know that they are in the right car park. From there we will be walking down the High Street, then Magdalene Street, Fishers Hill, Bere Lane, Chilkwell Street, ending back at the car park. After that, everybody will be invited back to a local pub.

"The aim," adds Paul, "is to raise awarness that this is a draconian law and we're fighting for the right to choose."

The march coincides with the 2007 Glastonbury Extravaganza (10-12 August), which this features artists such as Van Morrison and Ray Davies, so why not make a weekend of it?

For further details, or to confirm your participation, email Paul at opposetheban@aol.com.

Another pub closes

Hey,July is not yet finished and news of another pub gone under-the difference with this case was the landlord started his own ban in February but the smokers voted with their feet,boycotted him straight the way and never came back-sorry but it made me smile-you'd have thought all the no smokers would have supported him wouldn't you? No I wouldn't because they don't go to pubs much do they. Obviously.

Early smoking ban pub forced to close
A pub which introduced a smoking ban six months ahead of the national ban has been forced to close due to a lack of custom.

The Bush, in Ince near Wigan thought it was getting ahead of the game by banning smokers at ther start of the year but licensee Deejay Royall has been forced to shut the doors just weeks after the country-wide ban came in.

Royall took over the pub 18 months ago and thousands were spent transforming the interior.

He told the Wigan Evening Post: "Basically, we ran out of customers.

“We introduced a smoking ban in February, we'd had it refurbished and it was looking nice.

"People started to go to other pubs that hadn't introduced the smoking ban yet and then when it came in July they stopped coming in altogether.

"A lot of pubs will be struggling because of the ban. I'm personally gutted.”

Despite being forced to close his business Royall is still a fan of the ban but believes it will force other pubs out of business.

He added: "I still think it's a good idea but one that people will have to get used to and in the short term it will spell disaster for many pubs.

"People are staying at home, buying cheap booze from the supermarkets and sitting with their friends smoking their heads off.

"But I think there will come a point when they won't want to sit in and will start going out again, especially as Christmas approaches."

Pub takings 'down as much as 40%' says Sunday Mirror

Pub takings 'down as much as 40%' says Yesterday’s Sunday Mirror reported that a survey it carried out following the smoking ban found takings at pubs had dropped by as much as 40%.
The paper ‘revealed’ that its survey found thousands of pubs are struggling to survive following the July 1 stub out.

It said small town-centre pubs and bars in inner-city areas are the worst affected because they have no outside area for smokers to light up.
Bob Collins, landlord of the British Oak pub in Birmingham city centre, whose sales are down 40 per cent, told the Mirror: "Even though we're in the heart of things, we've been hit pretty badly. We can't afford fancy outdoor furniture with patio heaters so people are just staying away."

Simon Olley, landlord of Beacon Court Tavern in Gillingham, Kent, said: "We've had a slide of about 10 to 20 per cent. I'd like to know where the nonsmokers that were supposed to be coming into pubs when the ban was introduced are. I haven't seen any."

The paper listed similar quotes from various licensees and bar staff.

Shaun Rennison, president of the Federation of Licensed Victuallers Associations, reportedly told the paper that around 1,000 bars were likely to shut.

He is quoted as saying: "Closures are inevitable in the long term.

“Around 50 per cent of pubs in England trade at less than £160,000 per year and those losing 15 per cent of sales would be in a perilous position."

Shoppers hit back at smoking ban

Shoppers hit back at smoking ban

Shoppers are threatening to boycott a Preston mall amid anger at a smoking ban in its outdoor car park.
Fishergate centre bosses who banned smoking in the open-air car park say people caught lighting up will be banned from shopping there for six months and fined £50.
A string of readers – many non-smokers – have contacted the Lancashire Evening Post to say the measures were too heavy-handed and would discourage them from visiting the centre.
A poll on the LEP website also showed 68% of people thought an outdoor ban was a step too far.

Smoking has been illegal in public buildings and substantially-enclosed spaces like covered bus shelters since July 1.

The laws do not apply to open-air parking but Fishergate managers say they are entitled to enforce their own rules as it is a private car park.

Andrew McCann from Penwortham said the car park ban was political correctness gone mad.

He said: "If Fishergate are so concerned about health risks from carcinogenic fumes them maybe they should consider banning diesel cars from the car park.

"I for one will no longer take the risk of becoming a criminal and will be happy to take my spending power elsewhere."

Brian Finch of Chorley branded the ban absurd.

He said: "It's a car park full of motor vehicles emitting exhaust fumes and they say smoking a cigarette is going to poison passers-by.

"It's lunatics running the asylum."

Internet user Kubis of Preston left a message on the LEP website calling on customers to boycott the centre if they were unhappy with the car park rules.

He wrote: "The only way to deal with these kinds of Big Brother tactics is to take your loyalties elsewhere.

"It's no good being bullied by rules like this and yet still giving them your custom."

Nicholas Watson of the Preston Chamber of Trade said: "We could take a view if (the ban) was on the street but if private land-owners wish to adopt a policy there's nothing we can do."

A spokesman for Fishergate said the exclusion orders was only to be used as a "last resort" and that no one was banned so far.
They said the policy was aimed at making the centre as pleasant as possible for all shoppers.
They added: "The Fishergate shopping centre itself has been no smoking for about 10 years. We extended this to the car park to discourage people from congregating at centre entrances."

Smoking ban may cause pub to close

Smoking ban may cause pub to close
A TRADITIONAL pub in Redhill may be forced to close because the smoking ban has slashed trade by half.
Landlady of The Crown, in Nutfield, Sharon Murphy, has told the Surrey Mirror that the pub has lost half of its takings since the beginning of July when the ban was introduced.
The 46-year-old added: "I'm not even close to my targets. I used to make somewhere between £2,000 and £2,500 a week, but now its less than £1,000."
"I'm extremely worried about my job - if my takings are the same this week as last, I don't think we will survive longer than a month.
"If it has to close it will be very ,very sad - I've put everything into it and to lose it would be like losing a piece of myself."

Sharon said the loss of business means it is impossible for the pub to afford new shelters for smoking customers, or even cover costs in running entertainment at the pub, such as hosting a band.


Her 20-year-old son, Chris, who works at the bar five days a week said: "Ninety per cent of our customers are smokers and they just don't stay as long - instead of having two or three pints and a smoke they just have the one and leave."
Chris said The Crown has been closing early for the past few days because the smoking ban has killed trade.
"We could lose our jobs over this - it's really bad. We're both really stressed about things and it's not good for either of us."
Chris, who is a smoker, finds he cannot take cigarette breaks if there are customers in the pub because he is not allowed to leave the bar unmanned.
Sharon Murphy said she owes it to the customers to stay optimistic for the future and hopes things will improve once the ban has settled down, but remains angry at the Government for implementing an ill-thought out ban that has wrecked her business.
"I can't see any other reason why I've lost the trade that I have and the funny thing is the one bar you can smoke in is in the Houses of Parliament."

AGAINST THE SMOKE FREE BAN?

AGAINST THE SMOKE FREE BAN?
Come walk with us!!
Whether you are for or against the new Government legislation on smoke free enclosed public areas, one fundamental aspect to remember when living in a democratic society is the free will to vote on such law changes.
No such vote has been taken or even offered for this matter, making the new legislation almost worthless, let alone almost impossible to police.
A fair and simple solution is to repeal the ban and allow landlords and private clubs etc.. their rightful freedom of choice to run a smoking or non smoking venue. People wishing not to smoke will naturally frequent the non smoking venue.
Freedom of choice for all of us!
Please come support us! If not in opposition to the ban, but for the freedom of Choice!!
For more info call Wells 01749 672747, 07722852224, 07885437854

The Walk will take place on
Saturday August 11th 2007
We will all meet at Silver Street Car park (Behind High St) Glastonbury at 12 Midday,
From there the march will follow along The High St, Magdalene St, Fishers Hill, Bere Lane & Chilkwell Street.
After which we will then go to a pro-choice pub!

Government drug dealers

Just about to pop out to see a local band-at least the weather looks to be improving.
You can probably tell i'm not in a good mood,its going to be another night of bar,sit down,fag,toilet,listen to band,fag,sit down,bar etc. etc.

I was thinking about the role of Government.
If we trust our government,and the non smoking majority seem to, (unless their being selective ),then why hasn't there been a total ban on smoking if its that bad for you? I know of 8 billion reasons why,but surely that makes the government little nore than drug dealers,dealing death for a price,or pimps taking their %.
Its because there is no concrete evidence that passive smoking kills-bottom line.
So all were really talking about is a namby pambys moaning about a smell and sore eyes-hey,i'd have just given you smoke free rooms and good aircon. if i was pm.

Smoking is not against the law,and thats the bottom line-why on earth carn't we have smoking venues.Just for smokers. No whingeing bottle water drinkers allowed. Hey,i'd sign a form to say I wouldn't sue and the place wasn't liable etc.

smoking ban ruining the fun

Thanks to James from Bath,for sending me this article by email,its a letter printed in the Bath chronicle
Bath Chronicle

What i am finding in a lot of these articles and letters,is a great deal of debate in the comments section-of course its two way banter but i have found an overwhelming response against the ban-all we have to do is get it more organised.

SMOKING BAN IS RUINING THE FUN AMONG PUBGOERS
the smoking ban.

A few years ago when a ban was starting its big push, I wrote a letter to the Chronicle claiming this was the thin edge of the wedge in controlling our way of life.

I had response at the time from supporters of the smoking ban and I replied, once again, that this was about our civil liberties being taken away and adding that drink would be the next target. This has been proven by the way in which the Government have already started making labels with strengths and units on bottles etc.
Next it will be our food!

For all people out there who are happy about smoking ban, I say that soon they will all be issued with a 'smart card' with an allowance for units of alcohol for the week and next in line will be saturated fats you can eat, so people who like to have a glass of wine with a good meal will be limited.

Then, of course, remember all the lost tax revenues will have to go onto our income tax payments.

For 50 years now I and many people my age have enjoyed a cigar or cigarette with a drink now we are being pushed out into cold and wet to get a little pleasure out of life.

In my local 80 per cent of clients are smokers - including the staff - and when we smokers go outside in the garden under umbrellas we find our non-smoking friends join us as in the bar there are not many left.

Even our landlord calls himself 'Billy No Mates' as he is usually in the bar on his own!

Surely everyone who has to put up with this situation should write to their MP and try to get ban changed to allow some pubs where they don't serve cooked food to have smoking allowed?

Finally, is it just a matter of time before we have limited air miles and we are stopped using our cars every day?

Big Brother is on its way - and I don't mean the programme on TV.

MR F W MORGAN
Bath

Here are the comments so far:
Mr Morgan is perfectly correct in saying this smoking ban is the thin edge of the wedge. State interference into the way people live their lives - it is an absolute disgrace. If there had been a market for non-smoking venues, then the market would have responded accordingly. There has never been a law against opening up non-smoking venues, but now there is a law against opening smoking venues. Passive smoking is an irritant and if it does cause cancer, then the risk is so low as to not register on the Richter scale. This ban was bought about by fraudulent science. Give people a choice, if they want non-smoking venues fine, but leave us smokers and tolerant non-smokers to our own haunts. Designated, ventilated areas to an agreed standard is the way forward; the technology is already proven - in fact cleaner air is breathed than standing in Milsom Street for 10 minutes with all the car fumes. Join us at www.freedom2choose.co.uk and fight this unnecessary and draconian law.
Bill C, Bath




The people who are so in favour of this ban do not realise that they will ultimately 'suffer' anyway due to the closure of very many public houses and other businesses. Over the past 3/4 weeks, in my area there has been a great loss of custom in some places and the anti-smokers who are filtering in tend to buy about one drink and then leave. Spike says, 'the boot is on the other foot' - ie. that those who enjoy smoking in pubs should 'leave if they don't like it.' Well, they are doing and the atmosphere in a lot of places now is about as exciting as looking at watching paint dry. The real characters who have personalities are staying away whereas really boring subdued people are inside pubs making them as drab and dull as themselves. If there had been a great market for non-smoking pubs, why didn't all these sanctimonious people either open them or go to them when they were able to do so? Instead they simply condone and kill the enjoyment of others. freedom2choose.co.uk
Jenny, N Yorkshire




Over 100,000 people die from smoking related illnesses in the UK every year. It's estimated that 650 people die from second-hand smoke every year in the UK (more than from drink driving!) SHS is lethal and there are over 100 independent, peer-reviewed scientific studies that show the harm it causes. Don't beleive me? Go and check the tobacco companies websites, even they have given up lying and OPENLY ADMIT that SHS is harmful. The tobacco companies' opinion, not mine! This law will save lives, the lives of people who now have the freedom2choose not to passively smoke!
Steven, Bath




How right you are Mr Morgan, Since the ban in my village, where there are 4 pubs, the atmosphere is about as dead as a wet fish! The same as your pub, i see 20 or 30 people outside, and 1 or 2 inside, namely the barmaid and owner/landlord! thats on a good night...say fri/sat....the rest of the week its EMPTY! All of our non smoking friends come and sit outside with us, as they don't know what to do with themselves, when we're all outside having a fag and a laugh! [so boring these Antis!] Oh well it won't be long before they can join us, as their puratism ways will have got all the pubs shut down, from lack of customers. Then where will they be...OUTSIDE ON THE STREET WITH ALL US SMOKERS!] FIGHT THESE DICTATORS [ WITH ALL OF YOUR MIGHT! WWW.FREEDOM2CHOOSE....JOIN NOW...THEY CAN SET US FREE
Tracey, Worcestershire




Spike says he has "suffered" for many years? Suffered from what Spike? You haven't been harmed in any way by second hand smoke, because it has been scientifically proven that second hand smoke does not cause any harm at all. What it boils down to it people like Spike just do not like people smoking, so they try to justify their abhorrence to this activity by making out that it can cause them harm. I don't like the ghastly stink of non smokers, who sit there with a glass of shandy and suck boiled sweets non stop, they make my clothes and my hair stink of it. So shall we ask the government to ban this as well, on the grounds that the sickly smell from second hand sweets causes cancer of the nose? Well, if the anti smokers are going to tell ridiculous made up lies, we all might as well join in.
Peter T, South East




Fun - not a word that you could associate with any of the 'hundreds' of non-smokers (OK, 1 or 2) that have come into my local since the ban. Sit in a corner, have one drink and leave. About time the ban was overturned and the pubs given back to the people who really know what they are for - socializing. If the non-smokers don't like it - open your own pub freedom2choose.co.uk
Tich, York




And what about those who don't smoke but enjoy a drink? We have suffered for years and any complaints made are greeted with -'leave if you don't like it' well the boot is on the other foot now.
Spike, Bath




So very, very true. The imposition of this law is destructive to essential personal and social recreation and relaxation. There should be an acceptance that many businesses provide pleasure and communal, adult enjoyment. The propaganda behind this ban is so full of lies, exaggerations and sound-bites that even the smallest amount of research shows it is a blatant effort to de-normalise smoking and, as such, to demonise the legal activity of a quarter of the population. Smoking venues are not anathema to the majority of the population as can be seen from figures from the Office of National Statistics - It's a shame that Government used our money to get ASH & CRUK to commission polls and base popularity upon their biased figures. Bring back commonsense - you can ask people to risk their lives, often voluntarily, in the emergency services but prevent them from relaxing with a legal product - crazy.
Neil E Dunn, South West

rebel landlord

This article has been buried but it is recent and looking at the comments section,still allowing smoking.

Council clamp down on rebel landlord

REBEL landlord Nick Hogan is to be interviewed under caution by Bolton Council after he threw officers out of his pub as they tried to enforce new smoking ban laws.

Mr Hogan, who runs The Swan and Barristers in Bradshawgate, asked inspectors to leave as they tried to give him a warning that he could face a £2,500 fine if he continued to allow people to smoke inside.

He has consistently defied the ban on smoking in public places, which came into force on July 1, despite one of his customers being handed a £50 fine.

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Mr Hogan has asked the council to launch a prosecution so that his views can be aired in court.

Last week, Hamish Howitt, who runs the Happy Scots Bar in Blackpool, became the first landlord to be summonsed to court for flouting the ban. He will appear before Blackpool magistrates on August 1.

However, Bolton Council said it will interview Mr Hogan before it starts legal proceedings.

A spokesman said: "On two occasions Mr Hogan has obstructed our officers from doing their job and has asked us to leave his premises.

"His actions contravene the Health Act 2006 and we have invited Mr Hogan for an interview to give him a chance to explain his stance.

"These are preliminary requirements to any potential prosecution action we may take."

Mr Hogan has so far been given one written warning but refused to accept a second, insisting he be taken to court.

He said: "Other minority groups have rights, so why are smokers being refused theirs? I have been asking for my day in court since the ban was introduced. I want to show that this legislation is unworkable and discriminatory.

"As a landlord I won't discriminate against anyone. I'm not asking for anything else other than a compromise."

Cllr Nick Peel, the council's executive member for environmental services, said: "The council has to implement any law that is passed and they have been lenient with Mr Hogan.

"Obviously he is making a point that he disagrees with the law, but he has been aware all this time that he is breaking the law and now the council have no option but to prosecute. All the other landlords are operating within the law."

One smoker, Gerad Hart, has already been issued with a £50 fixed penalty notice for lighting up in Barristers, which he is refusing to pay.

6:04pm Sunday 22nd July 2007
Bolton News

fed up of smelling peoples arm pits

SCENT FOILS NIFFY CLUBS

BRITAIN'S biggest nightclub chain will pump a sexy scent on to dance floors after the smoking ban begins on Sunday.

Tobacco fumes cover up pongs such as sweat and stale beer which will be immediately obvious in the new clean-air clubs.

So bosses at Luminar Leisure polled 3,000 people on their favourite smells before creating the scent. Fresh cut grass came top followed by fresh coffee, the sea and fresh flowers. Other favourites included Marmite, tar - and petrol. The firm then hired professionals to create a perfume named Hydro-Spa which will be pumped through air conditioning.

Luminar chief executive Stephen Thomas said: "The smoking ban in Wales has revealed that other smells become much more apparent when the blanket of smoke removed.

"We didn't want our clubs smelling of armpits and stale beer." The poll showed clubbers agreed. Odours they least wanted to smell were BO, smoke, toilets and stale beer.

Mr Thomas said the company had run successful trials in a couple of clubs in recent months.

The scent system, which cost £500,000 to develop and install, will go into clubs in Birmingham, Coventry, Uxbridge, Kingston-Upon-Thames and St Albans this week and be introduced across the country next month.

Smells Expert Denise Belcham of Brandscents said: "Hydro-Spa scent is a deliciously fresh blend."

The Royal Hotel,Ashby-de-la-Zouch

Now, I cannot say for sure there are no provisions for smokers but certainly,at the entrance to the bar,there is a smoking ash tray on the wall,and all smokers from the bar were outside,in the rain,moaning.
There was a wedding reception,and on leaving the hotel and driving by,we could see the bride smoking on the front.
Obviously a busy venue with lots of revenue streams,weddings,conferences,restaraunt,live music etc. etc. Gets alot of trade from Castle Donnington.

Conducted a straw poll amongst smokers,bar takings are down and the bar is not as busy as it was.

The Royal Hotel is situated in the Historic Town of Ashby-de-la-Zouch, built in 1826 and recently refurbished to maintain it's original character. Whether on business or visiting Ashby-de-la-Zouch, the Royal Hotel offers a warm and friendly atmosphere and personal approach afforded to every guest and visitor.

fight the ban

There are some fantastic ones,some adequate ones,some "why the hell did i bother" ones and none.
As the ban continues,the mood amongst the smokers I meet are not being reflected in the media.
A good chunck are over 40's and have little or no interest in the media and just accept what is being reported in the press-I say there is a press black out on the negative aspects of the ban-ok the occassional story starting to appear but weigh that up against the amount of livlihoods being affected. And I am not just talking about smokers,I have spoken to alot of non smokers who are disgruntled with this ban.
The smoking ban is shit,repeal the smoking ban.

landlords profits tumble

A saturday night in leafy Leicestershire,weather getting steadily worse,rain getting heavier.
Three pubs visited,several well known driven past,smokers reporting on others-the early signs are not good.
Country pubs that are destination pubs,good food at cheap prices,are not holding their customers,yeah they are still coming in and eating,but they are not hanging about and spending.
Town pubs with entertainment,high overheads,door staff,acts etc. steady more than busy,don't forget,these pubs may need to take £5k on a saturday night, £4k and there in trouble.
Clubs,unless there is entertainment on,struggeling-all clubs competing to put the biggest bingo prize on,winners and losers,but generally all down on general bar takings.
Those with good shelters V no shelters? The ones who havn't bothered better do something to win their punters back because its goping to be a long winter and once customers change their habbits,its going to be hard to win them back.

Got some pubs to name and shame and one to slightly praise,watch this space.

market traders have to put up signs

There appears to be alot more confusion about the signage needed for the smoking ban-apparently market traders need to put up no smoking signs:

"A covered market stall with three sides, for instance, will be required to display no smoking signs. And hiring a marquee for a corporate function or private party could also leave those doing the hiring open to legal action."

wish I had a share in a sign manufacturing business.

market traders need no smoking signage

The Sun and the smoking ban

seems to be very little coverage on the smoking ban,but managed to put up a blog on the sun newspaper last night,check it out,the more views it gets-the more views it gets and maybe we can get this repeal the ban ball rolling big time!
repeal the smoking ban AKA anarchy in the smoking shelter

name and shame landlords

Don't forget to email me details and photo's of landlords who have done jack for their smokers,no smoking shelters AND to praise the ones who have gone the extra mile and put up a damn good smoking shelter.

bingo halls and the smoking ban

Early days but reading through the report,bingo halls in England are suffering the ways ones in Scotland do-I know the industry is pushing for a new generation of on line players,but alot of current players are older and will never use the internet. This generation love the sociability of halls,cheap food and booze offers-In Scotland they have lost 18 Bingo halls and counting-fight the ban.
Interesting statistic is the machine playing revenue,up tp 75%!

Rain eases smoking ban pain for Bingo clubs
LONDON (Reuters) - Revenue at England's bingo clubs has dropped since a smoking ban started this month, but the decline has been limited by bad weather encouraging more punters into the clubs, the head of the UK's biggest bingo firm said.

Neil Goulden, chief executive of Europe's biggest gambling firm Gala Coral, told Reuters the wet weather had helped limit the impact of the smoking ban by driving customers from their waterlogged gardens into its bingo clubs.

Continual downpours have affected large parts of England and led to the worst flooding in decades.

"It's very early days but it's not as bad as Scotland (after the smoking ban there) and quite promising ... I'd say around mid single digits (fall in revenues), about 6 or 7 percent at the moment," he said.

"But we are measuring against a pretty poor period last year when we had the (soccer) World Cup and some very hot weather and of course we've had some not so hot weather recently," he added.

With 170 clubs, Gala is Britain's biggest bingo operator, ahead of Rank which has 113 Mecca bingo halls. Both firms saw revenue drop around 15 percent in Scotland when the ban was introduced there a year ago.

Smoking bans hit bingo halls in a number of ways -- many bingo players are older women and some stop going because they don't want to have to stand outside to indulge their habit.

Those who still go step out to smoke in breaks between games instead of playing highly profitable gaming machines, which can earn bingo clubs up to 75 percent of their profits.

noisey smokers part two

Its like a bus,nothing and then three turn up at once-I am sure this is the tip of a huge iceberg-hey,we got the football season soon, 20 pissed up lads popping out for a ciggy at half time-"barmy barmy smoking army".......

Noise nuisance smokers
HeadacheA BAR owner says he is unable to cope with the new smoking ban.

Pascal Pascalis, owner of the Iguana in Chorlton, claims that since the new laws were introduced his front outside patio area regularly fills up with smokers, causing a disturbance to his neighbours.

One neighbour has already complained to the authorities about noise and Pascal fears more complaints are inevitable because smokers are constantly popping outside for cigarettes.

AdvertisementHe said: “There is absolutely no way I can control this problem.

“It’s giving me a real headache and now a neighbour has complained to Environmental Health about the noise. We’re finding it’s going to be a major problem for us now.

“How do you stop people on a busy evening drinking outside an establishment and how can I ask them to leave their drinks in the bar when they want to smoke outside? It would be totally unfair.”

Ironically Pascal was one of the biggest supporters of the smoking ban when it came into force on July 1.

Pascal says he doesn’t want to stop his customers going outside with their drinks – but admits it’s a real pain in the butt.

Just under four weeks ago Pascal told the Reporter: “I'm all for the smoking ban and I think my smoking customers will have no problem with it.”

But this week he hit out at the authorities for not thinking the ban through properly.

A city-council spokeswoman confirmed that a complaint had been received about noise outside the Iguana Bar. She said a letter had been sent out to the bar informing the owner of the complaint.

Was this ban thought through?

I don't think so,I cannot believe MP's debated this for how long without even trying to tackle the bigger picture.
The following article just appeared on a news site and I figured this must be happening the length and breadth of the country.
i hate to think how night clubs are dealing with this-if you have any examples please email me.
The thought of 20-30 drunk lads all popping out for a fag at 1am scares the shit out of me.

‘This smoking ban is giving me a headache’

Marc Mullen

ALL the best laid plans of Camden Council's licensing committee have gone up in smoke for one Hampstead pub since July 1.

Ye Olde White Bear in New End was given permission last year to serve booze until 11.30pm, provided customers were not using the tables at the front of the pub past 11pm.

Chris Ely, owner of Ye Olde White Bear, said this worked perfectly well until the smoking ban came into effect on July 1.

Now customers nipping out for a crafty fag after 11pm are being told they must have their nicotine fix away from the pub.

Mr Ely said: "At 11pm customers came inside but we were still open and there was never any confrontation.

"But now since the smoking ban came into force it has been an absolute nightmare.

"If a customer nips outside for a fag after 11pm, they cannot use our tables as we are not licensed. They must smoke off the premises, which means they have to cross a golden studded line, which divides the pavement in half.

"How can we police that? It worked well, but now it is just stupid. People don't understand and I find myself having to explain the inexplicable."

The issue has led to fears that more pubs which have licences preventing late night drinking outside will face the same dilemma.

In South End Green, the Garden Gate and the Roebuck both have 11pm curfews on outdoor drinking.

Pam Gilby, chairwoman of the South End Green Association, said: "It certainly does raise an issue with the licensing provision. I think the answer would have to be they can be outside for a cigarette, but just not drinking.

"There are people who oppose all licensing changes and I am sure they would oppose that."

When the Royal Free Hospital banned smoking within its grounds last year there were complaints when patients, some in wheelchairs and pyjamas, were seen smoking on Pond Street.

In Holly Bush Vale, the Holly Bush pub had a long-running problem with noisy customers, which it resolved after working with its neighbours.

Holly Bush owner Nicholai Outzen said: "I don't think the buildings around the White Bear amplify the noise of people talking like they do here.

"It's a bummer, but the best thing he could do is move the tables up against the wall at 11pm, so that people cannot use them.

"Before he did control his customers, but now he has to send them across the road, nearer to neighbours who may have complained in the first place and where he cannot control them.

"If his neighbours have a go at him for that, that is not fair."
http://www.hamhigh.co.uk

And heres another article from a similar perspective.

Smoking ban comes under fire
It may have been in place for less than a month, but the smoking ban is already coming under fire – this time from a non-smoker.

Karen Hill, of New Street, St Neots, was looking forward to the new smoking ban.

However, since July 1 Karen and her husband Daniel have been overwhelmed by smokers standing outside their home.

She claims some have thrown cigarette butts into their garden and the smell of smoke regularly enters the home they have lived in for two years.

However, Karen, 27, says it's not just a problem local to her and regularly sees groups of smokers hanging around outside pubs and restaurants.

She said: "It's an invasion of privacy and there is smoke coming into our house, which isn't very pleasant. I am entitled to breathe smoke-free air.

"I feel let down that nobody thought through where these smokers were going to go, they just chucked them out onto the street.

"It's just moving the problem from one place to another and therefore causing different problems.

"It is also down to the smokers to be considerate, rather than just down to the pubs themselves."

Huntingdonshire District Council's smokefree implementation officer Oliver Langford said: "As a result of the law, people may ultimately gather outside to smoke, so we are encouraging pubs and restaurants to take into consideration nearby residents and noise levels.

"It is very important that everyone is aware of their responsibilities and I am more than happy to assist with any queries that arise while on visits."

Is any of this a surprise? Have we all not had these conversations for months now-I know of one example where a guy inhis 50's who wouldn't say boo to anyone,went to his town local on the first night of the ban,popped outside with his pint for a fag and got a £50 fine for drinking in the street-ok he should have known the law,but he didn't,had never concerned him before-no softly softly for him.

welsh pub to close because of ban

PUB TRADE KILLED BY SMOKING BAN
A Briton Ferry pub has become one of the country's first victims of the new smoking laws.The Earl of Jersey has closed within months of the ban on lighting-up in enclosed public spaces coming into force.
Its owner Kerry Morgan, aged 50, said the pub had nowhere for people to go outside for a cigarette.
Now he's planning to turn it into flats.

"Don't get me wrong, the pub wasn't booming before," said Mr Morgan.

"But once the ban came in, there was no facility for people to smoke outside and it just emptied.

"I would imagine 75 to 80 per cent of the regulars were working-class people who liked a cigarette.

"The landlords tried their best, but the ban was the final nail in the coffin."

Mr Morgan said converting the building into homes was now the only option.

"I don't think there's any mileage in it as a pub now," he added.

The property developer has been an outspoken critic of the new smoking laws, which came into force in Wales in April.

He even built a private 90-seater pub in his Briton Ferry garden to beat the ban.

"I think what has happened to the Earl of Jersey is the tip of the iceberg," he said.

"There are going to be a lot of working-class pubs closing down. I think the traditional boozers have had it - and they are an important part of the community."

Nationally it is estimated trade in some pubs has slumped by 20 per cent in the wake of the April 2 ban.

Simon Clark, director of smokers' rights organisation, Forest, said: "This seems to be very similar to what's happened to several hundred pubs in Ireland.

"I'm sure that over the next two to three years, there will be hundreds of pubs closing in Wales too, and it will be a major loss to the community."

Mr Clark said this would force people to stay at home to drink and smoke, thus becoming isolated.

"It will especially hit older, retired people who rely on going down to the pub to meet people and get out," he said.

"It just highlights what an anti-social piece of legislation it is."

But director of anti-smoking group Ash Wales, Tanya Buchanan pointed out that smoking killed 6,000 a year in Wales.

She said: "We need to balance out any position taken that this legislation is anti-social, with the health consequences that it kills people."

Ms Buchanan agreed there was "anecdotal evidence" that some pubs in Ireland, which didn't have outside smoking areas, had shut.

But she pointed to figures in Scotland which showed that overall, there were just as many pubs nine months after the ban came in as there were three months before.

"In that period some closed, and others opened," she said.

"In the short-term some pubs have experienced negative effects, but some have benefited dramatically."

Ms Buchanan said there was also evidence to show the bans were encouraging people to quit smoking and make their homes smoke free.

Pete Robinson: Smokers come flooding in

Pete Robinson: Smokers come flooding in
26 July, 2007
By Pete Robinson
Helicopter camera catches the plight of outdoor smokers

Anyone who's been watching the news bulletins concerning the floods may have noticed a striking scene viewed from the helicopter's camera where the fast flowing waters are rising towards a pub. The outside seating is arranged in two tiers with the lowest level already under a few inches of water, perhaps sixteen tables in all.

Yet every single table was STILL taken by smokers who by now were having to crouch on the tables. Of course the inside area may well have been packed to the rafters with non-smokers enjoying the new, 'cleaner' atmosphere. Although somehow I doubt it.


Since the introduction of the smoking ban one peculiar observation has been the groups of smokers happily socialising and networking outside pubs who, a month ago, would never have spoken to one another. I'd suggest that to many smokers this rather pleasant phenomenon is compensating for their inconvenience, for now at least.

I don't believe they'll be out there in significant numbers later this year when the temperature drops. Let's not forget the smoker has always struggled to get down to his local in all weathers. Through rain, snow, hail and blizzard he's got there somehow. Perhaps even floods.

But where is the incentive now? Gone is the warm welcome, the relaxed atmosphere and the cosy chat with the bar staff. All the smoker can anticipate is banishment to a draughty smoking shelter like a badly behaved child, while children themselves are targeted by many pubs as 'the new opportunity'. I wonder if smoking customers will make the effort come the winter? Only time will tell.
http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?storycode=56325

smokers against the ban

During my internet search for pro smoking information,I have come across a good few sites for overseas smokers,but not that many for the UK,so if you know of any,drop me an email.
It seems that other countries are a step ahead of us in organisatio,but I know we will soon gather pace. United we stand and all that...

The floods and the smoking ban

Some friends in the US,who are having their own state battles with smoking bans being imposed like its gone out of fashion,sent me this photo,for any of us who are suffering potential looting in flooded areas-don't you just love those yanks...
smokers club


Some advice I found on their site:
Fight Smoking Bans

Be pro active instead of reactive.

There are only a few Antis taking rights away from a lot of people. There are a lot of smokers, and even more non-smoking folks who are fed up with the Antis taking away personal freedom.
The antis are well funded and do this for a living. When a smoker or non-smoker doesn't like being told what to do on their own property, the Antis reply by screaming that the person must be a front for "Big Tobacco."
Any opinion other than theirs is wrong and you are not allowed to ask why.
Think of the bully in the school yard when you were a kid. This is what he's grown up to be. He knows people will do what he says because he's lied so much that most sheeple take the lies as truth without question.
When you ask for proof of his statements, he enters into his magic act of deceit, smoke and mirrors. Listen carefully for his real message… "Because I said so."
If you already have parents and don't want more, force this bully to give you the proof to backup his statements.

... Make a stand. If you live in an area that has no smoking in eating places, pack a lunch to take to work for you and several friends and invite those who would normally go to a restaurant, and have your lunch where you can smoke. Or enjoy a picnic outside of an Anti owned establishment. Invite friends to your home for a BBQ, get back to the old fashioned home entertaining concept and keep your money out of Anti owned establishments. How do you know who is just a victim of the ban like yourself? Support the places who fought the ban, and boycott the ones who not only found joy in the ban, but bragged about it in the media. Hire a victim restaurant to cater your next party at home instead of going out.

you live in an area that has smoking places, then shop, eat and entertain only at those places.


... Spend wisely. Find the cheapest possible place to buy cigarettes. There is no point in giving the government any more money than we have to. And, if you really want to make a point, remember that you can change brands, roll your own, or even grow your own.

So,and I agree with certain with and I say BOYCOTT THE BRANDS if your drinking at home,try something new and independant, NAME AND SHAME the pubs that have done nothing for their smoking punters, PRAISE and frequent the ones that have, network and spread the message that we smokers don't have to lie down and accept this draconian ban-the smoking ban is shit.

bad weather and the smoking ban

Another cold and wet night in North West Leicestershire,in the middle of summer, and the smoking ban seems to be hitting local pubs hard,especially ones with no gardens or shelters. The odd one doing food seems to be busy,but apparently punters are not sticking around. So those cut price meal offers may change.
For me personally,its a taste of winter-when I am going to be smug in home,with friends and a fag-bugger this for a game of soldiers. And you can guarantee I will not be buying brands and I won't be buying from the supermarkets either.

So,the smoking ban is shit then?

My blog only went live last night and 20 of you have bothered to email me,all agreeing so far.
I am off out tonight,the rain is torrential here,but my daughter runs a social club and my wife will be cooking for the darts and pool teams. The club has an outside verandah and a sand bucket for smokers,well,at least they have done something.
I shall spend my evening going to the bar,toilet,out side for a fag,back inside again. Putting a coat on,taking it off again. Joining conversations in mid stream,ending conversations quickly as I go for a fag and three others join me.
get used to this new way of smoking-never.

Repeal the ban.
This blog is not intended to discuss medical evidence that is debatable and one sided,but to firstly discuss ways of fighting the ban,ways of changing the ban and ways of dealing with the ban.
There is currently an on line petition on the government website:
REPEAL THE UNFAIR SMOKING BAN ! Politicians have no right whatsoever to force landlords to ban their customers from smoking within THEIR OWN property! Smoking is not illegal and as such landlords have the basic right to choose whether to operate a smoking or non-smoking pub. The Governments job is to educate people about the health risks of smoking but they have no right to force a ban. Just who do these politicians think they are to order people to abandon an age old LEGAL pub tradition currently enjoyed by Millions! A fair and simple solution is to repeal the ban, and allow landlords their rightful freedom of choice to run a smoking or non-smoking pub. People (politicians included) wishing not to smoke will naturally frequent the non-smoking pubs, and as such will no longer need to impose their opinions on people who exercise their right to smoke in a pub. Meanwhile the House of Commons bars will continue to allow smoking...oh the hypocrisy! Freedom of choice for all of us please!
repeal the ban

Hook Norton Brewery

I am not an affiliate and do not earn money from these links,indeed don't even get a link back to this blog-Just want to give you soom ideas about beating the brands and supporting smaller independant brewers-if you are not going to the pub,support the independants and not the brands-if the major players in the industry see their profits decline and that we are not buying their brands in supermarkets then I am sure they can put more pressure on the government than ever we can.

The brewery at Hook Norton is rooted in an age when most towns and even large villages boasted their own brewery.
Approach the village of Hook Norton from any direction and the first thing you see is the Church tower. The second is the flag waving proudly over the brewery. The Hook Norton Brewery was started over 150 years ago by farmer and maltster John Harris. Today it is run by his great great grandson James Clarke. John Harris' brewery has now achieved a reputation he could have never imagined and the beer it produces today is enjoyed not only in the UK but in many other countries.

Hook Norton Brewery sits on the North side of the Cotswold Hills, an area of rural lushness so pivotal to the ebb and flow of English history, the locals decided long ago that a good, fresh pint should always be within easy reach. A natural spring provided the ideal site for a brewery, and one thing led to another.

1849 was a milestone year. The young Queen Victoria ruled - the 35th monarch since William the Conqueror - the country had endured Magna Carta, the Wars of the Roses, The Reformation, Oliver Cromwell’s Parliamentarians, the Restoration of the Monarchy and was well into the Industrial Revolution when John Harris set up his brewery at Hook Norton. After Centuries of tempestuous history the locals were ready for a few beers. After a short while the sales of this fledgling brewery began to improve. And before long, the brewery John Harris started in a local farmhouse became the seed for the Hook Norton Brewery Company Ltd, and things evolved rapidly.

Hook Norton Brewery remains one of only 32 independent family-run breweries; and you won’t find a finer example of a Victorian tower brewery anywhere. It's also the only brewery still driven by steam. On the ground floor of the brewery is a fine 25 horsepower steam engine, supplying through a series of belts, cogs and shafts most of the motive power the brewery needs to produce it's beer .

The brewery at Hook Norton is still "a real local brewery" and this is a rarity these days; awesome commercial pressures brought about change at the brewery, but the brewers at Hook Norton became adept at keeping a restless World at arm’s length.

Brewery research shows most of us are more familiar with the drinking process than the skilled preparation that leads up to it. But every pint produced by Hook Norton brewery that you raise to your lips has a story to tell. Beer is very much a natural product; and the brewery puts a lot of effort into the whole brewing process to provide you with a refreshing pint. The traditional methods employed at the brewery make traditional beers, and that's what counts at Hook Norton.

The Shire Horse at Work in the Brewery
The shire horse drawn dray at Hook Norton Brewery ceased deliveries in 1950, but was revitalised in 1985, mainly for public relation purposes. The shire horses now only deliver locally within 5 miles of the brewery, but attend many public functions such as fetes, pub openings and on the odd occasion, weddings. It should be noted that out of all of the breweries that own horse drawn drays, only two still actually deliver their products by dray and shire horse. At present the Brewery has three shire horses (Consul, Major and Nelson), who are looked after by their two draymen Roger Hughes and Philip White
Hook Norton brewery

Smoke bans suffocate pub profits

Smoke bans suffocate pub profits

A report in The Age says that hotel owners are suffering from the ban on indoor smoking, with revenue generated by licensed pubs, hotels and entertainment venues dropping between 6 to 8 per cent since the laws were introduced on July 1.

The fall may affect property values, which are typically linked to turnover, unless there is a notable recovery in the next six months.

"The initial impact of smoking bans on licensed premises has seen mixed results," said Paddy O'Sullivan, public affairs manager with the Australian Hotels Association, Victorian division.

"Across the board there has been a downturn in trade of between 6 to 8 per cent, taking into account a broad cross-section of the hospitality industry. Hoteliers who have invested in building outdoor facilities to accommodate smokers have experienced a lesser impact on trade."

Vinci Partners director Frank Vinci said some pubs would do better than others.

"The hotels that may prosper out of all this are the larger ones that can accommodate both large smoking areas and large internal areas and not compromise on space for its patrons," he said.

Mr O'Sullivan said he expected conditions to improve. "We're cautiously optimistic that over the next six months, any downturn in trade will be overcome," he said. "It's a big social change for the public pub-goer, but over time people adjust, things become self-policing and then after a period, it's not an issue."

He said there had been examples where food sales had increased due to more families being attracted to the smoke-free environment.

According to a recent sentiment survey compiled by Jones Lang LaSalle Hotels, 87.5 per cent of respondents anticipated anti-smoking laws would have an adverse effect on the industry. Survey results also showed the impact was expected to be short-lived - please visit http://www.health.vic.gov.au/tobaccoreforms/
Report by The Mole

So anyone wanting to buy a pub,club or hotel,hang fire for a few months,I recon next spring,and then go shopping-you will be able to beat the landlord down to a give away price,and then turn a pub with maybe hundreds of years of history,into a nice cosy home-yep,property developers must be rubbing their hands with glee-another reason the smoking ban is shit.
And anothe point in this article,those who have gone the extra mile and built shelters instead of cattle shed or worse still nothing,have not suffered as badly.
Name and sahme the pubs that have not looked after their smokers. Name and shame the breweries who have not supported their landlords.If your staying at home,boycott the brands!

Council to enforce smoking ban with spot fines

Council to enforce smoking ban with spot fines
Robert Sutcliffe
A TOUGHER approach towards enforcing the ban on smoking in public places looks set to be adopted by Calderdale Council shortly.
To date, officers have concentrated on offering advice but they will soon have powers to impose spot fines.

A council spokesman said: "Our approach so far has been very effective and the vast majority of people and businesses are complying with the law.

"But the next phase of implementing the legislation will be more robust, should that prove necessary."

The licensing and regulatory committee has been asked to delegate enforcement of smoke-free regulations to appropriate chief officers so spot fines can be given to businesses and smokers.

The move is due to be approved by the council at the next full meeting of members on Wednesday.

"Without appropriate delegation and authorisation, neither environmental health staff nor licensing enforcement officers will be able to issue fixed penalty notices," said chief law and administration officer Bernadette Livesey and head of environmental health Peter Ramsdale in a report to the committee which meets today.

It adds: ''The creation of safer communities is an important corporate priority. A cleaner environment in which to live and work is a positive step to promote that aim.''

Smoke free regulations came into effect on July 1 making it an offence to smoke or permit smoking in public places and making it an offence not to display signs.

The council has recruited two extra enforcement officers, paid for by the Department of Health, to tour pubs, restaurants and workplaces to ensure they are following the rules of the smoking ban.

"Nobody has been prosecuted at this stage because, like other councils across the country, Calderdale
has so far taken a constructive approach and advised proprietors of their responsibilities in enforcing the smoking cessation legislation," a council spokesman said.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/localnews?articleid=3062257

Car park's open-air smoking ban

Car park's open-air smoking ban
Unwitting smokers could be hit by a fine and ban at Preston's Fishergate Centre car par
Smokers caught lighting up in an open-air car park at a Preston shopping centre could find themselves banned from the aisles for six months.
Customers puffing a cigarette in the 850-space lot behind the Fishergate Centre face an automatic half year exclusion order and a £50 on-the-spot fine if spotted by security guards.

New laws outlawing smoking in enclosed public spaces came into force nationwide earlier this month but the legislation does not cover open places. A number of signs on the doors of Fishergate, however, claim it is against the law to light up in the car park – but none of them warn of the tough penalties. The warning is made in leaflets which are available inside the centre.

Fishergate bosses have pointed out they are entitled to make their own rules as the car park is privately owned but smokers' rights group, Forest, has branded the punishment heavy-handed. Forest spokesman Simon Clark claimed it could put off smokers from shopping at Fishergate.

He said: "They are within their rights if it is private property but it just seems very petty and pointless. These people need to live in the real world, not in some smoke-free Utopia.

"If people are going shopping, it's likely they will want to have a quick cigarette when they come out of the centre."

Leaflets on an information stand inside Fishergate warn smoking shoppers a six-month ban will come into force "automatically" if they are caught but bosses have insisted exclusions were unlikely.

A spokeswoman for Fishergate said: "The use of an exclusion order referred to on the leaflet is a last resort effort on behalf of the shopping centre management to enforce the smoke-free environment that both smokers and non-smokers agree with.

"In the current climate of environmental aware